Support/Archive/2024/08

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Delete optional translation messages

Please delete the following optional translation messages which are now equal to source after being fuzzied:

Thank you! Toliño^{Fala aquí comigo} 21:00, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Done Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 04:28, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Staff

I know it is said that one cannot apply for this group, but I would also like to support at the system level... I would then keep the software up to date and optimise the configurations! Justman10000 (talk) 15:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

@Nike Justman10000 (talk) 15:05, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

@Nike There? Justman10000 (talk) 16:18, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

@Nike There? I would be really happy Justman10000 (talk) 19:47, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Constantly pinging me doesn't help your request. It's just annoying. Generally speaking, one has to prove themselves at their current level and present a clear need for what additional permissions would allow them do. Nike (talk) 05:10, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Like mine? I'm just a normal translator Justman10000 (talk) 09:13, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

User:Justman10000 hello, Your enthusiasm is welcome : ) Yet the request you made won't be sucessful due at least to the following :

Translatewiki is a rather focused scope, low maintenance project.
Translatewiki has an existing team visible on Project:About, who satisfies current technical needs
Translatewiki therefore doesn't need spontaneous new software admins
You have not defined your skillsets
There is no defined purpose / bug(s) / feature(s) on which you want to work
There is no minimal community support for that work
2~3,000 edits on a wiki is still low to request software administrator right.

If you are looking for open sources projects to work on, please let me know and share your skillset. I have some knowledge on that matter and may guide you a bit. Yug (talk) 16:59, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

There are only 3 people listed and there is always work! And why should I define my skills if it's clear anyway (what one needs to be able to maintain a MediaWiki instance 🤨)? Justman10000 (talk) 07:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

If you talk about MediaWiki –the PHP software server side– to « keep the software up », you need at least proven experience on back end dev, versioning (github/gerrit/gitlab), PHP, databases and JS. Then there is the trust threshold which likely none on us volunteers satisfy.

If you meant the wiki pages, we then generally talk about a « Wiki instance », not a « Mediawiki instance ». The threshold is lower there, still need more that what most of us have.

I expanded on Nike's rapit hints. You now have your answer and all information needed above. I'm moving on. Yug (talk) 13:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I meant the whole site, the MediaWiki instance! And if @Nike: would give me a chance, he would see that I can do it! Even if it was just a kind of trial period or something Justman10000 (talk) 14:33, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

@Nike? I really don't want to be annoying, but I would like to be given a chance! If really not, I could also start as sysop first Justman10000 (talk) 11:37, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

However, I would like to contribute more than just translating! I also need translate-import to translate offline Justman10000 (talk) 11:43, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

There is a process for that Translating:Offline. Nike (talk) 15:27, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Means? Can I now be staff? Sysop? That would be really handy... Justman10000 (talk) 18:53, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

@Nike

Say, where are you all the time? Justman10000 (talk) 08:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

You are not ready for additional permissions. Please explore other means of contributing. Nike (talk) 08:30, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Says who? I have submitted a lot of translations! I need at least translation administrator or Offline translators Justman10000 (talk) 08:37, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Justman10000 Could you please explore why you need translation administrator or offline translator? What do you want to work on? Raymond 18:44, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I would like to translate giant projects (like MediaWiki)! However, since this contains literally thousands or even tens of thousands of source texts, and I only want to revise individual translations, it takes too long for the respective source texts to be filtered by the search (only 100 source texts are searched at a time). Justman10000 (talk) 19:27, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

@Raymond There? Justman10000 (talk) 14:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

@Justman10000, you are not going to be given staff or administrator permissions. You don't need them. Please stop asking for it for now. You haven't shown any need for that.

I have translated all of MediaWiki and its extensions almost 100% into my language. Even though I have the administrator permissions, I have never needed them to do that. I did it with the usual translation interface and translation search, which don't require any permissions. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 17:47, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Just because one doesn't need something doesn't mean it can't be useful! I need at least offline translator to be able to continue with my translation work in the best possible way Justman10000 (talk) 18:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

@Raymond There? Justman10000 (talk) 12:21, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

@Justman10000 As Amir already said: There is no need to give you more rights. Raymond 15:02, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I've explained for the umpteenth time that I need them? Don't ask if you don't read my messages after all Justman10000 (talk) 15:11, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

And without these permissions I will probably stop contribution here... It wouldn't be worth the effort! Especially not for people who can't seem to give someone a chance Justman10000 (talk) 15:14, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

@Raymond

What's so wrong with this? We're already talking about translation administrator or offline translator only! I need said permissions to be able to search, translate and import specific strings from large to huge projects Justman10000 (talk) 21:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

As said already: Translations can be done for all projects via the normal translation interface. You do not need any admin/offline rights. Raymond 16:33, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Say, do you even read my messages? It's not just about translating! I want/need to translate offline! The user rights are not enough! Justman10000 (talk) 17:20, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

And it's not just about translating in any sense! I would also like to contribute bureaucratically/administratively... Justman10000 (talk) 17:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for all your offers to help further. At the moment, there is no need for additional people in administrative roles. Please consider this thread completed and closed. Siebrand 21:22, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

I very much doubt it! But okay, I still need at least offline translator... Justman10000 (talk) 10:38, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

You are now allowed to use the offline translation feature. Siebrand 13:47, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Fever: variable checker issue with message Wikimedia:Feverfew-ui.result.redirectTitle

Original message is:

{redirectNumber, plural, =1 {1 redirect} other {# redirects}}

Translation is:

{redirectNumber, plural, =1 {1 doorverwijzing} other {# doorverwijzingen}}

I think this is seen as a single variable, and leads to a warning on all changes. Siebrand 12:43, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Reviewing new English messages

TL;DR: Can anyone think of an easy way to review new and old English messages?

Details: Over the last twelve years or so, I met a few potential contributors who know English well and who may have good suggestions to improve the wording of English messages.

Many English messages have issues: inconsistencies, spelling and punctuation errors, ambiguity, lack of clarity, etc. This happens even though at least some of them are written by professional designers and product managers. It's ok—everyone makes mistakes, and correcting each other is literally what wiki editors do.

I translate all the new MediaWiki messages into Hebrew (or review all other people's translations), and it has a side effect of reviewing all the new English messages (and often many old ones). Because of that, I quite often suggest improvements in English messages myself. Quite often, they are accepted. However, I'm not a native English speaker. It is not necessarily a problem, but I'm also not a professional English editor, and I met several people who are professional English editors and who want to make this kind of contribution!

And in general, it's always better if it's done by multiple people: reducing bus factor and bias, being more efficient, etc.

By "easy" I mean:

Web-based, without having to deal with files. (Although it doesn't have to be on translatewiki.net itself.)
Not having to deal with Git or Gerrit. Setting up a notification to go over Gerrit changes that involve en.json files could theoretically work. However, there are people who can review English text, but are very scared of Git. Knowing Git and diffs is a useful skill to have, but it's too much for some people, and I don't want to give up on their potential contributions.

There's "Recent additions", but it shows all projects, which is overwhelming. I thought of hacks like going over British English, but I don't totally like it—a lot of them are identical to "en" and I'm not a fan of just creating copies.

So can anyone think of an existing way to do it, within translatewiki or with something external?

One last random thought: If there's nothing else, perhaps we could allow something like the review action for the source language? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 23:37, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

The RSS feed https://translatewiki.net/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=FuzzyBot&namespace=8 gives all recent FuzzyBot edits in the MediaWiki namespace (including message documentation and eventual other languages). This is very rough, but it already exists. You can control the namespace by manually editing the URL parameter; one feed can only yield edits in one namespace (or all namespaces), for two namespaces, you need two feed URLs (but hopefully your feed reader can aggregate them).
The new message group subscription feature is, as far as I know, language-agnostic, so you can get notifications even if you don’t actually translate. However, the notifications don’t indicate what messages were added (only the number of them), so unless you have a language with less than a few dozens of missing translations, it’s pretty difficult to find out what changed. (This actually bothers me as well as a real translator, so maybe could be changed?) Also, there are no notifications yet about updated messages.
Based on the contributions list of FuzzyBot, it should be possible to build a Toolforge tool that generates an RSS feed fulfilling all requirements (only English messages, filtering by message group rather than just namespace, as many or few message groups in one feed as you want). If it builds upon the contributions list, the scary Git interface is not a problem, since it can only ever link to translatewiki.net (since sadly there’s no direct connection between Git commits and translatewiki.net edits). The tool could also send emails, but that’s more difficult because emails need a database to store subscriptions and the user logging in; I don’t even know if it’s possible and/or permissible to allow users to log in using translatewiki.net accounts (as opposed to WMF accounts).

Tacsipacsi (talk) 19:07, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Update MediaWiki:Mainpage/az

This should be "Ana səhifə" per this consensus from 2021. Nemoralis (talk) 22:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

@Nemoralis:

Done Jon Harald Søby (talk) 09:20, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

message unlock request

while I was checking my old translations at most important messages, I reached the "Main menu" message (the one with a red warning at documentation), when I changed it to a better translation, it refused because the message is "highly visible". I want to update the message now. MRidhaAJ (talk) 14:10, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I can fix it for you. What should it be? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:17, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Actually, which message are you talking about? "Main menu" is this message, and as far as I can see, it's not protected. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:22, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

It's not from Vector group, It's from mediawiki most important messages like what I said before. MRidhaAJ (talk) 14:26, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

The same message appears in both groups. Can you please give a direct link? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:54, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

See it. MRidhaAJ (talk) 15:59, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. It says "Main page", not "Main menu". What translation do you suggest? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:12, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I suggest of "الصفحه الرئيسيه" (not with the ""). MRidhaAJ (talk) 08:30, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Done Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Using the Language selector to switch language of translatable pages

Greetings,

Translatable pages allow contents such as project documentation on Mediawiki.org to be multilingual. Currently a flat list with all languages in which the content is available is listed above the page contents. As the content is translated into more languages, this makes it hard for users to find the content in their language (they have to scan a long list or rely on the browser search), clutters the page, and pushes the content down.

Language list on top of translatable page — Language list on top of multilingual page on MediaWiki.org

Wikipedia page connected to other language versions

To address this issue, the Language and Product Localization team is implementing a change to use the Language selector from ULS for language selection on Vector 2022. This aims to ensure consistency with the way languages are selected on other projects, such as Wikipedia.

Specifically, the configuration option ($wgPageTranslationLanguageList = 'sidebar-only';) that we are planning to use would display languages as interlanguage links only and ignore the tag even if present on the page. You can see this in action on translatewiki.net:

Vector 2022: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Project:About?useskin=vector-2022
Timeless: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Project:About?useskin=timeless
Vector legacy: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Project:About?useskin=vector

We’re planning to enable this on Test Wikipedia first, and then roll-out on all wikis where Translate extension is enabled based on community feedback. Feel free to leave your feedback here, or on the Phabricator task.

FAQ

Q: Why are we making this change?

A: Currently a flat list of all languages to which the page is translated is displayed at the top of page contents. As the content is translated into more languages, this makes it hard for users to find the content in their language (they have to scan a long list or rely on the browser search), clutters the page, and pushes the content down. Using the Language selector from ULS, makes the available language list searchable and clears up the top of the page to display the actual content. It also brings uniformity to how content language selection is done across our sites.

Q: Will I still be able to see the translation progress for each language?

A: Yes, translation statistics for each language will be displayed within circles in the same manner that it is displayed currently. The special page Special:MessageGroupStats can also be used to view per language translation statistics.

Q: Where can I see this in action?

A: This change is already active on translatewiki.net. You can see it in action there:

Vector 2022: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Project:About?useskin=vector-2022
Timeless: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Project:About?useskin=timeless
Vector legacy: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Project:About?useskin=vector

Q: How will this change affect the ULS for other projects like Wikipedia? Currently, the ULS in Wikipedia shows and links to Wikipedias that have the translated version of the same article in other languages. How will this new workflow affect the Wikipedia User Interface?

A: This change will not have any impact on projects that do not use the Translate extension and as such Wikipedia and its sister sites will not be impacted.

Q: This new ULS menu design shows 20 languages before scrolling. Does it mean I have to scroll and skim through maybe 90 languages to access my language if it is the last on the list?

A: No, you won't have to scroll all the way. You can type the two or three letters of your language in the Universal Language Selector for the search to fetch your language translation.

In addition, the Universal Language Selector uses different techniques to determine which languages will be most relevant to you, and displays those at the top.

Q: What is the roll-out plan?

A: We’re planning to enable this on Test Wikipedia first, followed by MediaWiki.org and then roll-out on all wikis where the Translate extension is enabled.

Thanks! Abijeet Patro (talk) 13:16, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Looks nice!

But what about the edge case of language-specific wikis that have the Translate extension enabled, like frwiktionary and ptwikisource (those are the only two I find)? Jon Harald Søby (talk) 13:54, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Actually (and as far as I remember, I’ve already said this a few times), it’s quite not an edge case. mw:translatewiki.net has interlanguage links, m:Wikimedia Foundation has interlanguage links, c:Help:Automatic edit summary has interlanguage links, s:mul:Wikisource:WS Export has interlanguage links, and I could probably list dozens more if I ran an SQL query. Putting translation links to the interlanguage links is simply not a good solution on wikis that can have genuine interlanguage links – and all WMF wikis are such. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 19:35, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback, Jon.

I was not aware of this use case. This will have to be handled differently, not something that I had considered. I'll check with team.

Regards, Abijeet Patro (talk) 09:40, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

As I translate a lot on Wikimedia Commons it is currently very useful to see the translation status of German directly on the page. Now I need one click more to see the status, is this right? I would prefer to see the translation status of at least my user language, maybe my babel languages too, directly. Raymond 16:34, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback. You are right. You'll have to click on the language selector to see the translation statistics for your preferred language.

> I would prefer to see the translation status of at least my user language, maybe my babel languages too, directly.

Acknowledged.

Regards, Abijeet Patro (talk) 09:20, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Unable to login

Hello i am not able to login to translatewiki.net , I get

The supplied credentials could not be authenticated.

Error message when I try to login. And when try to reset password I get

The password reset was not handled. Maybe no provider was configured?

User:Ignatgg

This user is translating into multiple languages. Their translation for Translations:Template:Optional/1/az is wrong, I am not sure about other languages. Nemoralis (talk) 10:55, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I removed this user's translation permissions. Thank you for the notification. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:50, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Amire80. Can you restore Translations:Template:Optional/1/az? I already fixed it. Nemoralis (talk) 14:56, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Nevermind. Nemoralis (talk) 15:00, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Username change

Hi, could I have my username changed please? Target username: Ceirios

Thank you in advance. Afalau (talk) 15:49, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Done Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:35, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Lovely, thank you again! Ceirios (talk) 17:27, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

please update this translation

please update translation for MediaWiki:Nstab-mainpage/pa from ਮੁੱਖ ਪੰਨਾ to ਮੁੱਖ ਸਫ਼ਾ. thanks! KuldeepBurjBhalaike ^(Talk) 11:29, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Was there a discussion about it with other people who edit in Punjabi? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 20:25, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

No, but for all other wiki projects we are using ਮੁੱਖ ਸਫ਼ਾ KuldeepBurjBhalaike ^(Talk) 07:04, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I see ਮੁੱਖ ਪੰਨਾ on https://pa.wiktionary.org at the moment :) Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 17:02, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

@Kuldeepburjbhalaike I would support this change, it would be good to get feedback from other pawiki users as well. Bgo eiu (talk) 12:50, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

on translatewiki or any other punjabi wiki project? KuldeepBurjBhalaike ^(Talk) 13:07, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Other projects :) Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 19:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

tag-mw-contentmodelchange-helppage

The documentation of this message contains {{optional}}, but it isn’t actually marked as such. Could someone add it to the list of optional messages before we get a sea of redundant translations? Thanks in advance! —Tacsipacsi (talk) 13:46, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Done.

Feel free to send a patch like this one next time. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 22:43, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

User name change

I would like to change my user name to Paloi Sciurala. Thanks in advance. NGC 54 (talk) 13:10, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Done. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:47, 27 August 2024 (UTC)