Support/Archive/2024/09

This is an archive page for the Support page. Do not post new threads here, they will likely not be read. If you wish to continue an archived discussion, start a new thread on the Support page and include a link to the archived discussion.

MediaWiki:Tag-cross-wiki-upload

There is MediaWiki:Tag-cross-wiki-upload/en and I expect the content to appear at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Tag-cross-wiki-upload . But it doesn't. MediaWiki:Tag-cross-wiki-upload-description/en seems to have the same problem. (Although for the latter, Commons customizes it.)

It looks like they were removed in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/extensions/WikimediaEvents/+/788259 but I'm not sure why. whym 10:53, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

@Whym: That's not the right diff to look at, that's just L10n-bot doing its job correctly. You should look at when the message was removed from the English file, which happened in gerrit:787116. Seems they thought it was unused. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:47, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the pointer. I submitted a patch to partially undo it. gerrit:1064150 whym 03:24, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Can someone here take a look at the link above? The patch concerns interface messages only, and ready to be reviewed. whym 09:06, 28 August 2024 (UTC) EDIT: This is now merged. whym 00:04, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Please add Nguiemboon Language

Hi,

Could you please add the Nguiemboon language from Cameroon. The language code is nnh. 

Thanks. Serieminou (talk) 15:13, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 21:35, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Serieminou (talk) 19:11, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Please add Duala language

Greetings. Could you please add Duala language fro Cameroon. The language code is dua . Thank you in advance. Serieminou (talk) 22:50, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:13, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Serieminou (talk) 19:11, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

User name change

I would like to change my user name to Mohanad. Thx in advance --Mohanad Kh (talk) 12:46, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 19:17, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Please add Jju language

Hi, please help add Jju language (ISO Code: kaj) for translation. I intend to lead a translation process for this language closely related to the Tyap language, beginning from September 2024. Thanks! Kambai Akau (talk) 00:58, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the request, we'll do it soon. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:36, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

My pleasure! Thanks, too!! Kambai Akau (talk) 18:49, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Phabricator task for tracking: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T373928 Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 19:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done

This is now enabled. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 13:26, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

[zmi] Request to add new language: Negeri Sembilan Malay - 'Baso Nismilan'

The purpose of the request is to have Negeri Sembilan Malay interface in Wikimedia projects especially multilingual projects like Wikidata.

English name: Negeri Sembilan Malay
Native name: Baso Nismilan
ISO 639-3 code: zmi
Directionality: LTR
Script: Latin

~ Thank you - Zahirulnukman (talk) 15:11, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the request!

Other than Wikipedia, are there perhaps any other places where the name "Baso Nismilan" appears, such as a dictionary or another website? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 02:45, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I couldn't find it academically. Nismilan is short form for Negeri Sembilan.

But, the Malaysian authority (National Archive of Malaysia) use "Bahaso Nogori" for this language in a formal and academic event, which appeared in this Instagram post. For informal way, many use "Loghat Nogori". So, maybe can use "Bahaso Nogori" instead. - Zahirulnukman (talk) 03:03, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done This is now enabled. I recommend using the list called "Links for Negeri Sembilan Malay" on your user page to translate. Thank you and good luck! --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 13:26, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Vicuña Uploader

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Vicu%C3%B1aUploader points to https://github.com/exander77/vicuna rather than https://github.com/yarl/vicuna and also says `This branch is 21 commits ahead of, 89 commits behind yarl/vicuna:master.`

Oct 31, 2021 is the last commit to the canonical, May 3, 2022 for the fork.

It does seem it still works, but does seem somewhat abandoned on both upstreams... Reedy (talk) 23:48, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

RE: Hinglish as a new language or variant

(Really sorry for abandoning the topic. I may have dismissed the notification and then forgotten about it.)

Replying to @Amire80:

> Why is it necessary for Hindi? I realize that it is hard for some people to type in Devanagari, but is it hard to read?
The answer is yes. In fact, Devanagari being hard to read is probably one of the major factors driving users away from using Hindi as their locale.

Also, since hi-hinglish was disqualified for not having a valid ISO code among others, the next best alternative is hi-Latn which is listed on Unicode CLDR. My understanding is that only the language variant policies would apply to it, in which case it satisfies the first condition. ~Saurmandal 20:59 15:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Are there any other websites that have full user interface or edited content in Hindi in the Latin alphabet? (I know that it's frequently used for informal messaging, but that's something different.) Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:37, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Fully translated websites? I don't think so. But as stated in my original request, the Indian Google Pay app has functioning Hinglish locale. I understand the need for an existing precedent because it's not commonly seen localised into, but Hinglish is so rarely used outside of the informal setting (users instead opting for English), it's also just not worth localising into. ~Saurmandal 21:29 15:59, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Well, exactly, and that's why I'm not so comfortable about enabling MediaWiki localization into it. MediaWiki is for things that are perhaps not the most formal in the world, but they are still more formal than casual text messages. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 20:40, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Okay then, I suppose I'll try to get a few things going for it first. ~Saurmandal 11:35 06:05, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Username change

hallo!! ^^

can someone change my username to Əkrəm Cəfər? tia :3 Erayreperit (talk) 17:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Əkrəm Cəfər:  Done Jon Harald Søby (talk) 08:57, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

This language is disabled

The following page

https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Category:User_tig-N

displays the following message:

This language is disabled: not yet enabled, no longer supported by translatewiki.net, or no longer exported.

Please don’t translate to this language unless you're working to resolve the issues it was disabled for. — Support

Discouraging potential contributors to translate in this language Bbeshir (talk) 14:49, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for reporting this mistake. I've fixed it.

Thank you very much for your translations into Tigre! Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:56, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Babel category template

Following up on the discussion right above this one: Is the {{Babel category}} template needed at all? If I understand correctly, those categories are automatically created when languages are added, and a user can go to other numbers by simply navigating the category tree. If this category exists, it has to be added to more category pages as languages are added, manually or by a bot. It would be justified if it was actually useful, but as far I can see, it's not useful, and it should be deleted. Are there other opinions? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:18, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it is needed.

The categories are created automatically, and the template is added upon creation by User:Babel AutoCreate (see its latest creations) these days, after I created this and this page locally here on TranslateWiki. Before I did that, the only text in the categories that Babel AutoCreate made was "Users in this category indicate their knowledge of language $1.", with no categorization. (Verdy would usually add the template after the categories were created.)

So the template is beneficial because it automatically categorizes babel categories for us, without any human intervention necessary. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 18:28, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh, so it's already automatic? Nice. And does it need that "disabled" notice? I understand why it's useful on the portal pages, but is it useful on those categories? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:58, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Amire80: No, probably not, so I've removed it just now. However, the 'disabled' parameter (that made that notice appear) also enables the categories Category:User disabled languages and Category:User disabled languages without translators. I'm not sure if those categories are useful at all, and marking stuff as disabled or not adds manual maintenance overhead, so I'm inclined to remove that too. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 21:56, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it's useful. You can get this information through portals. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 21:58, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Nice. I've removed the categorization and deleted those (now-empty) categories just now. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 10:47, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you!

Curiosity: Because of the previous question about these notifications, I added a step to the language adding procedure, to mark that category as not disabled.

Now that you've deleted that parameter, I wanted to remove that step, and discovered an "Unbreak Now!" bug along the way. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:03, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Babel-template-params-category (all translations)

I just noticed that FuzzyBot added the hash character on that page, This causes the category (and the translations that contain that) to incorrectly change from "Pages using babel with named parameters" to "Category:Pages using", because it does not support that character (although it is curious that the correct category is linked to this user's page even though it shows the wrong one), If not fixed many wikis (including enwiki) will display the category incorrectly and lead to confusions :(. No se (talk) 06:31, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Uh-oh, that's probably my fault. I'll check this ASAP. Thanks for the note. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:18, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Fix: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/extensions/Babel/+/1072905

Thank you again for bringing this up! Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:24, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Everything should be fixed now. Thanks to @Reedy for getting the patch merged and to @Raymond for auto-fixing the broken translations. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:49, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Add Northern Ndebele language

Zimbabwe librarians are working on the Northern Ndebele Incubator and want to work on localization of Wikipedia's software into our language. The language code of our language is "nd" The name of language in the language itself is "IsiNdebele seNyakatho" Sichelesile (talk) 15:17, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:12, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

{{GENDER:}} with no variable

What is the thing with {{GENDER:}} where no variable is given, like in this message? It's not the first time I'm noticing this, but in most cases I went around it by using some gender-neutral form. Ponor (talk) 11:56, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ponor: When no variable is given, that means GENDER will be adapted to gender of the user that sees the message.

I don't speak any Croatian, but to me the translation in MediaWiki:Discussiontools-replywidget-placeholder-reply/hr doesn't seem correct; it changes the word suradniku/suradnici (which means "associate" according to Google Translate), but based on the gender of the user who is viewing. Your gender normally doesn't affect the gender of others… 😅

Based on the translation, I believe the correct translation for Croatian would be:

{{GENDER:|Odgovor}} {{GENDER:$1|suradniku|suradnici|suradniku/suradnici}} {{BIDI:$1}}

There is a GENDER on the word "reply" because some languages (like Arabic) need to conjugate verbs differently based on the gender of the person one is speaking to. Most languages don't do that, so if your language is like that, you can just keep the same structure as in the English message. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 20:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

@Jon Harald Søby, thanks, good to know what the variable-less GENDER does. What I remember is that in most messages with GENDER that I've seen, a $2 would be used for {{GENDER:$2|}}, and another variable, $1, to print the user's name.

In this message, "Reply" is a noun (hr:Odgovor) that does not depend on anyone's gender, which should be followed by "→" (dative case) {{GENDER:$|him|her|~them~}}.

I've noticed that BS translation has what you're proposing, but I don't think it works: when replying to User:Kukac here, I'm getting the ~them~ part (regardless of my chosen gender, unlinke the current HR case). This is probably a bug, i.e. needs a code enhancement. What say you? Ponor (talk) 21:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ponor: For the bs translation, it doesn't sound like a bug to me – it sounds like the user Kukac hasn't set their gender in their preferences. If Kukac would set their gender to either male or female, the message would change, but it wouldn't change if your gender changes (but that's what would happen with the current hr message).

As for different variables ($1 and $2), that is usually done when one of them is a link. So $1 = [[User:Example|Example]], while $2 = Example (because {{GENDER:}} doesn't work when you use the version with a link). In this specific message (Discussiontools-replywidget-placeholder-reply), there's no link, so you can use the same variable for both display and as an argument to GENDER. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 07:19, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Sorry to contradict again, @Jon Harald Søby... I'm still trying to figure this out. You're right, {{GENDER:|m|f|n}} depends on the reader's gender. I'm hoping that no one on hrwiki will get upset, but I made a local message [1], and I'm testing it here with my sec. account that has its gender set to fem. I'm getting the neutral form now for both me (Ponor) and her (Ponorić). Is there a special place (tag) for reporting this on phabricator, you know? Ponor (talk) 14:19, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ponor: You are right, it doesn't work as expected. The reason is that GENDER works differently for PHP and for JavaScript, and this is JavaScript code. If you could file a task in Phabricator with the tags #Gender-Support and #DiscussionTools, that would be great! Jon Harald Søby (talk) 16:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Reported at phab:T375293. Ponor (talk) 18:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

User name change

I would like to update my user name to this one, as I did in all Wikimedia projects, check this out. Thanks in advance. Patafisik (talk) 16:23, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

@Una tantum:  Done Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Enabling Northern Mansi

Hello! I would be eager to contribute to translations, I know that isn't much, but maybe I can get others to help as well. The Mansi wiki incubator sees some activity from now and again, maybe people will be willing to help with this too, mns is the ISO-3 code, just in case. Ewithu (talk) 18:27, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

How well do you know the language? Your user page says "mns-1". We already had a few cases of people who supposedly contributed in languages of Russia that are spoken by very few people, and it turned out that they don't actually know the language, and their translations were wrong, and we had to delete them.

I totally support the idea of developing those languages, and I don't care that they have few speakers, but it should be done well. If you are in contact with native speakers, and you check that the translations are actually good, then I'm happy to enable it. Otherwise, let's wait for native speakers to turn up. Thank you for understanding. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 00:15, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

I've been studying Mansi for around 3 years, I also picked up Mansi as an elective at uni, I have contact with the languge professor there directly. I have previously picked up communications with native speakers, working at Luima Seripos, the newspaper of Mansi. Sadly themselfs can't contribute due to them being too busy. Contact with them is spotty at best and absent at worst, due to their judgemnt of foreigners as of late. And as far as I could tell, there are very few or any native speakers on Wiki projects, or in online spaces where I'm in. Young speakers are even more rare, and even if they say they are natives, they might not have the proficenty of one, at least that's what the proff told me, wish I could site this, but she didn't give us her resoursec. I've been reading the languge book written by Svetlana Rombandejeva on Mansi grammar, and my speaking skills, are not intemediate, I think they are little over basic in regards of reading. Though my vocab needs work for sure. I understand the implications, and I will accept if my request will not come to fruition. Ewithu (talk) 08:40, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

OK, I'll enable it, but please be responsible about it: if you don't know something, skip it and ask a native.

What should the name of the language be? I see "ма̄ньси" in Ethnologue, but "ма̄ньщи" in the newspaper. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I would say we should keep "ма̄ньси", since I'm more used to writing the languge in the сь version, and that can be considered the official way to write the literary language. I found the document adressing this on Ob-Ugric institue, but can't remember how I stubled uppon it. Ewithu (talk) 16:05, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

OK, I'm working on it.

Do you have a convenient way to type Cyrillic with the special letters, like а̄ and Ӈ? If not, I can make a keyboard for it. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 03:08, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

We use a phone keyboard, HeliBoard has Mansi (Western and Northern too) support, and it can write а̄ and Ӈ. For PC I don't have any yet though. I could try to map the macron letters to my Hungarian keyboard where I have íáúó though. If you would do the keyboard thing, that would make it tremedously easier to do things for sure. Ewithu (talk) 09:45, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Please turn off English-based plural rules

Hi, for the longest time we're finding creative ways to localise in order to get past the English-based rules. Odia, my primary language, does not obviously follow how plural nouns are written. For instance, ୧ଟି ସେଓ (one apple) and ୫ଟି ସେଓ (five apples) are grammatically correct. It's in fact incorrect in Odia to write ୫ଟି ସେଓଗୁଡ଼ିକ where ସେଓଗୁଡ଼ିକ means apples. [[Wikimedia:Wikipedia-ios-diff-single-header-subtitle-bytes-added/or]] is one example where exact translations of "$1 byte added" and "$1 bytes added" are expected. That means one has to write incorrectly in Odia to conform to English grammar. This is wrong is all aspects. Each language has different syntaxes and grammars. Can I request to turn off plural rules for Odia? Psubhashish (talk) 12:37, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Updated: @Amire80 suggested to write $1 ବାଇଟ ଯୋଡ଼ିଲେ instead of $1 ବାଇଟ ଯୋଡ଼ିଲେ and that solved the problem I mentioned. Psubhashish (talk) 19:37, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

In a little more detail, when the form is the same for all the numbers, simply write one form: {{PLURAL:$1|$1 ବାଇଟ ଯୋଡ଼ିଲେ}}.

Another comment is that English-based plural rules are actually not used for Odia at all. Odia has its own rules defined. They happen to be almost the same as the English rules, but they are nevertheless distinct. As written above, however, you don't always have to fill all the forms. The rules just allow you to use different forms for different numbers when it is necessary. When more forms are not necessary, simply don't write them.

If there are still issues with plural support in your language, please let us know. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 20:02, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

@Amire80:, I realised there is one consistent incompatibility with the $1 singular|plural format. In Odia, most singular-plural forms are not written in the $1 time-$1 time, $1 hour-$1 hours, $1 X - $1 Xs form. Instead, there are often separate words for $1 X. Look at the table below for illustration:

English singular-plural	Odia singular	Notes
once-twice-X times	ଥରେ-୨ ଥର-x ଥର	1 time is comparable with English
1 hour - X hours	ଘଣ୍ଟେ-x ଘଣ୍ଟା	a dedicated word for singular; in word (ଘଣ୍ଟେ - one hour) is preferred over number (୧ ଘଣ୍ଟା - 1 hour).
1 file - x files	ଫାଇଲଟିଏ - xଟି ଫାଇଲ	dedicated word for singular; ୧ଟି(1x) ଫାଇଲ is generally discouraged
1 person has commented - x persons have commented	ଜଣେ ମତଦେଇଛନ୍ତି - x ଜଣ ମତଦେଇଛନ୍ତି	dedicated word for singular; ୧ ଜଣ (1x) is rare and unnatural

In all such situations like the above examples, we're now forced to write in an English-like format which sounds quite unnatural. Neologism is useful when existing terms/styles are nonexistent. In this case, existing colloquialism is forcefully changed for no real reason. I should have framed things with clarity when I first posted. I'm seeing more examples now to articulate this issue with some clarity. --Psubhashish (talk) 18:32, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that it's a problem. If I understand correctly, you can do all those things using the current system.

Write the special singular form in the first part, and the different plural form in the second part. You don't have to mention the number within the form if it's not needed.

For example:

{{PLURAL:$1|ଥରେ|$1 ଥର|2=୨ ଥର}} - this will show "ଥରେ" for one, "୨ ଥର" for 2, and "x ଥର" for other numbers. (When special cases are needed for particular numbers, it's done like this: by writing the number, the equal sign, and the form. Note that the number before the equal sign must be Western, so "2" and not "୨"!)

{{PLURAL:$1|ଘଣ୍ଟେ|$1 ଘଣ୍ଟା}} - this will show "ଘଣ୍ଟେ" for 1, and "x ଘଣ୍ଟା" for any other number.

{{PLURAL:$1|ଜଣେ|$1 ଜଣ}} ମତଦେଇଛନ୍ତି - this will show "ଜଣେ ମତଦେଇଛନ୍ତି" for 1, and "x ଜଣ ମତଦେଇଛନ୍ତି" for any other number. "ମତଦେଇଛନ୍ତି" is written once after the whole "PLURAL" clause because it's the same in both case.

Does it make sense? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 03:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, @Amire80:. This is very helpful. Really appreciate it. It seems like we need to document these special cases for localisers in Odia. --Psubhashish (talk) 16:37, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

This is a good idea. The name for such a page should be Localisation guidelines/or. You can see more pages like this is other languages at Special:PrefixIndex/Localisation_guidelines/. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:36, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, @Amire80:. I've started adding things to the page. --Psubhashish (talk) 04:06, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

ma langue

bonjour !

Comment trouver le portail de ma langue le KIHUNDE! Méthodes Bulebe Hangi (talk) 15:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Bonjour !

La page que nous appelons le « portail » pour votre langue se trouve ici : Portal:hke. Cette page vous donne quelques informations générales sur la langue.

Si vous souhaitez traduire dans votre langue, veuillez utiliser la liste de liens sur votre page utilisateur sous le titre « Links for Kihunde ».

Je vous recommande de parcourir cette liste élément par élément de haut en bas et de traduire chaque élément complètement. Si vous travaillez avec des amis, je vous recommande de choisir chacun un élément différent dans la liste et de le compléter. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:26, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Can I use one credential for log in

Hi,

Tried to use my incubator account on wikitranslate but it is not working. Do I need to have a separate account for each project? If not, why is it not working for me?

Regards

Idris IdrisSeid (talk) 10:04, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the account on translatewiki is separate. Wikipedia (in all the languages), Incubator, Commons, and Wikidata are all Wikimedia sites, and they use the same account, but translatewiki is a separate. Your username can be the same. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:09, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification and quick response Amir.

Just out of curiosity, this page shows certain users only ("You are viewing users who have set their test wiki preference to Wp/tig."

Would this have any effect when you do your assessment to graduate Tigre from the incubator?

Thanks

Idris IdrisSeid (talk) 20:11, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't matter for that assessment. That setting makes the searching easier for you by including only this language in your search, instead of all the languages on the Incubator, and also makes some other more convenient for the editors. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 00:19, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Request to translate the Wikimeda software into Lango

I would like to translate the Wikimeda software into Lango, and the language code of the language is "laj". Sandra Aceng (talk) 07:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done by Amir E. Aharoni. See Phab:T376054.

Request to translate the Wikimeda software into Acholi

Hello, I would like to request the translation of the Wikimeda software into Acholi, and that the language code of the language is "ach". Sandra Aceng (talk) 14:32, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done by Amir E. Aharoni. See Phab:T376060.