MediaWiki talk:Privacy/zh-tw

{{Delete|zh-tw translation are stored in zh-hant, the page is no longer used and can no longer be updated by regular users/translators.}}

(The subject page has been deleted. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 19:57, 6 October 2022 (UTC))

I don't know why you posted this new request, that was creating the page you ask to delete, but did not exist before your posted message. Was it a try?

Note that the translation code "zh-tw" is not necessarily disabled, it is used for some local variants of Chinese used specifically in Taiwan, like there is also "zh-kh" for the local variant used in Hong Kong. Such variants are needed sometimes, even if most translations should go to "zh-hans" and "zh-hant". Otherwise the "zh" language code alone is disabled for translations (it only exists for common portals local to this wiki or its parent category grouping all Chinese variants as well as other Sinitic language that are part of the "Chinese" macrolanguage, including "cmn" for Mandarin, "hak" for Hakka, "lzh"="zh-classical", "nan"="zh-min-nan", "wuu"="zh-wuu" and "yue"="zh-yue", where the long codes with hyphens are legacy but still used in domain names for localized Wikimedia project wikis, or sitelinks in Wikidata, or interwiki codes).

So do you ask it because it is no longer necessary with the existing fallbacks to "zh-hans" or "zh-hant", as there's no local distinction specific to Taiwan?

The request is to delete the "subject page", which is "MediaWiki:Privacy/zh-tw".

The reason that the deletion request template isn't placed on the page is because it's not editable by regular users/translators.

The translations of zh-tw are now all stored in zh-hant, so this is actually no longer needed and can no longer be edited/updated by regular users.

I believe what "zh-kh" you wrote means "zh-hk".

"zh-classical", "zh-min-nan" are even not valid BCP 47 or ISO 639 codes, either "lzh", "nan" or "zh-lzh", "zh-nan" are, and the latter is not suggested (especially in the MediaWiki/translatewiki system".

Even the language code "zh" itself represents the "Chinese" macrolanguage, it "is identical to"/"represents"/"actually means" the languuage code "cmn" in the current "language code" / "translation storing" structure of translatewiki.

See https://github.com/wikimedia/translatewiki/blob/b52f4b4/mw-config/TranslateSettings.php#L205

Please also note that the requested page to delete, which is MediaWiki:Privacy/zh-tw, is not MediaWiki_talk:Privacy/zh-tw.

@Verdy p

I had already understood (and stated in the last sentence... it may have not been clear for you). Yes the message itself is blocked. But you did not reply to the question: why you need to delete that local distinction for Taiwan? For now it is also blocked on the target wikis, but would remain as it is independantly of the state of translations for the regular "Hans" and "Hant" script-based variants, just like there are still local translations for Hong Kong (may be also for Macau or Singapore on some target wikis).

The code "zh-hant" in translatewiki "is identical to"/"represents"/"actually means" "zh-tw".

The code "zh-hans" in translatewiki "is identical to"/"represents"/"actually means" "zh-cn"

The code "zh-hk" in translatewiki is "simply" "zh-hk" as the difference between "zh-tw" (stored in "zh-hant") and "zh-hk" is huge enough.

"is identical to"/"represents"/"actually means" means they are actually the "same" language, thus no translation difference between them except the stored language code and only one of them are not disabled for translation.

Not completely.

• "zh-cn" represents a part of of "zh-hans", but it actually means "cmn-hans-cn". "zh-hans" also covers "cmn-hans-sg"
• "zh-tw" represents a part of of "zh-hant", but it actually means "cmn-hant-tw": "zh-hant" also covers "cmn-hant-mo" for example.
• "zh-hk" represents a part of of "zh-hant", but it actually means "cmn-hant-hk" (but it is also mixed terminologically with Cantonese/Yue "yue" and terms borrowed/adapted from English).

The mapping from "zh" to "cmn" comes from the registration in the IANA database for BCP47, where Mandarin is the default language within Chinese languages "zh", which also includes some other Sinitic languages like Hakka, Minnan, Cantonese/Yue or Wuu... but not all, for example Tajik [tg] is not part of the "zh" macrolanguage, even if it is Sinitic).

Chinese "zh" has many different "dialects" (actually different languages, that's why it is a "macrolanguage") which are widely different when voiced (so much that they are not easily mutually intelligible when spoken), but using two shared main orthographies ("hans" and "hant"), with only some local differences (e.g. in Hong Kong), but also additional non-Han scripts (notably Latin for the Minnan orthography, or for Pinyin transcriptions of Mandarin which is also a common alternative used by IMEs for "hans" and "hant"; with the Latin script there are also other romanization systems than Pinyin, such as Wade-Giles mostly used by Chinese speakers in US). With their most common written form using the Han script, all these languages become somewhat intelligible with each other between China Taiwan, Singapore, or other Chinese writers/readers in other countries.

I (of course) understand what the language code itself means, but in this case:

What I mean is "what translation are these language codes actually storing".